bamaboy473

...and what would be your connection to the dangerous trailers site?

There's nothing in that article to induce speculation about a boat or trailer problem...so why do you bring it up in the way that you did? Are you trying to ban boat trailers now?

__________________
Rick

VOR ocean race Hooter Scooter
Chaparral Signature Cruiser

Idiot

i'm having trouble finding the story on the first website...

copy and paste the link for us.

otherwise, i dont see anywhere that says it was the trailer that caused the accident...

__________________
i'm just some idiot from the internet

BiloxiGuy

Okay, I don't quite see the entire point or your agenda in all of this, however I will say this...The last thing I want to be doing is driving an already unstable Ford Explorer while pulling a tandem axle trailer. Of course, this is assuming that there is a boat on the trailer as the pictures do not show the boat.

__________________

Key Largo 186/Yamaha 90 - My idea of a bass boat...for my attempt at bass fishing
Hydra-Sports 2000CC Vector/Honda BF225 - Sold
Hydra-Sports 2200WA Vector/Yam F115's - Sold
Hydra-Sports 2400CC Vector/150 HPDI's - Sold
31' Fountain CC Open/Opti 250XS's - Sold

ohbuoy

If you look at dusterrm's previous posts, it is clear that he has an agenda against trailers. I feel very sorry for those involved in this accident, but I do not see any mention in the articles either that the trailer was the cause of the wreck. I also went to the dangerous trailers site and looked at accidents in Florida. This site has cited 44 accidents in 26 years, not all of which were fatal. In addition, driver error or negligence were cited in some cases as well. I seriously doubt that an "issue" causing less than 2 accidents per year in Florida is going to lead to serious regulation changes. I imagine trailer accidents is nothing but a blip on a screen compared to drunk driving over that same period.

State regulators tried to issue a blanket regulation change here in NC a few years back which restricted towing boats at night. The backlash was huge (and that was at a time when gas was $4 a gallon). In the end, the regulators did a real study and could find no evidence to support the restrictions and repealed the law.

__________________
2008 Champion 220 Bay

10Penny

On a more pressing issue, a man used the Potty and when pulling up his pants dropped his concealed weapon which fired shattering the commode. A piece of porcelain flew up cutting his arm and the noise scared a women in the adjoining womans toilet. Rather than banning trailers would it not be better to ban toilets made of brittle material? There are many more toilets than trailers and toilets have a lot more use.

http://wjz.com/watercooler/carls.jr.gun.2.908481.html

__________________
was "Garvey Williams" (couldn't get the old signon to work after upgrade). 2101 Seaswirl, Sea Chaser 1800 RG some other stuff

CudjoeDon

The twin-engine walkaround cuddy boat was ejected from the trailer and ended up about 100 ft from the crash. Appears that the load had to be close to limit, but main problem was the 20+ knot wind on 7-mile bridge can be dangerous. Reports are that the trailer began to sway causing the FWC driver to jackknife, ending up nose first against the oncoming lanes barrier wall. Oncoming van T-boned the FWC Explorer or Expedition killing the FWC passenger and fatally injuring the van's passenger -- unknown if the fire killed the FWC person or the original impact. Seven-mile bridge is two lanes with small shoulder lanes, not center divided and 55MPH speed limit. When things happen, they tend to be bad.

CudjoeDon

__________________
2006 20' ProKat Suzuki DF140

billinstuart

The "overseas highway" in the keys is one of the most dangerous roads in the country. Nighttime, daytime, doesn't matter. Accidents and deaths are an unfortunate but common occurrence. Why blame the trailer?

WhiteBucket

http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...q=Ron+Melancon

Attention Wh*re?



LOL

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&r...&aq=f&aqi=&oq=

OReely

I'll have to agree with the other posters, there is nothing in the article you linked that said anything about why it happened or how it happened. The only thing we know is that there was a fatality and three vehicles, one towing a boat, were involved in a crash. If you have more information on this event that indicates the trailer was somehow the cause of the accident, then you should have posted it.

Seems as though you have some sort of agenda to push. You put up raws numbers in the comments section of the article and on your website but how about a little context. 963 lives lost in Florida since 1975 due to trailers (according to you). How much towing was done during that period? How many miles? How many trips? Was the incident rate for trailers higher than for traffic as a whole? Is there any statistical significance to what you are trying to infer? You want an open and honest discussion, start with those.

__________________
http://specialistboatcompany.com/

v70cat

If it is so dangerous the solution might be banning all large trucks and trailers.

BiloxiGuy

That is a Ford Explorer in the pics. A Ford Explorer should not be used to tow anything of weight, much less a twin engine boat.

__________________

Key Largo 186/Yamaha 90 - My idea of a bass boat...for my attempt at bass fishing
Hydra-Sports 2000CC Vector/Honda BF225 - Sold
Hydra-Sports 2200WA Vector/Yam F115's - Sold
Hydra-Sports 2400CC Vector/150 HPDI's - Sold
31' Fountain CC Open/Opti 250XS's - Sold

WhiteBucket

Ummmmmmmmmm, you dont understand......Ron had a bad experience with a trailer once, back in 199.....

The guy is all over the net whining about trailers, and their inherent evil....EVIL I tell you

Coconut Sunrise

Those winds in the last month have been rough to say the least

the cross winds across the bridges can sway most vehicles

J

Steve_250

I say we ban all boat trailers.
At the same time, we should ban all idiots from towing their Day-Sailer with their 15' mast up!
Yeah, those bridges in the Keys are a might bit sporty at times.
But sure, let's blame the gun, not the shooter....

Sorry to hear about yet another tragic death, especially in a place of beauty.

__________________
2000 Wellcraft Coastal 270, 2006 E-TEC 225s

Scotsman

A colleague who works down that way mantioned that it was a 25 ft Parker on the trailer. No idea of the weight of this rig but my gut tells me its in the "heavy"class. I tow my 20ft cc (~4.5klb) with my Explorer XLT for real short distances. Cant imagine attempting to tow something substantially longer and liklely heavier. If that is an Explorer in the pic then wow..........

H.

WhiteBucket

[quote=Steve_250;2798144]I say we ban all boat trailers.

QUOTE]

meii

Tread easy guys.
Jeff, the deceased marine biologist, was a good friend to alot of people down here in the lower keys.

Jeff, I wish you fair winds and following seas.

__________________

WhiteBucket

I'm sorry to hear of his death.

I'd sure be incensed at the guy who is using his death to advance his personal agenda though. How do you feel about that

stringle

Well done, Sir. Condolences to his family and hopeful speedy recovery of those involved.

wetneck

yep can be a dangerous road, i remember when the tanker crashed a few years back

The explorer is a short wheelbased vehicle and might be a bit light for a 6k+lb rig but if they were on duty for the state they were working with what the state provided

__________________
25 hydrasport w/2/200 ox66 '00
16 Zebra Marine w/89 pro-v 150

Sea Hawk

I haven't read every single post on this thread, but here is my comment.

The second vehicle behind the boat in the accident was a friend of mine, driving his Peterbilt Dump truck, he was heading to Marathon to pick up a load for me, we were on the phone and he was describing the SUV swerving for a few seconds and then bang, the SUV was going 50mph at that time and when the swerving got worse the driver hit the brakes probably to hard, jack knifing the trailer and hitting the uncoming traffic .

I will suposed that many here has driven a car pulling a trailer that is unproperly loaded, and has experimented such swerving "I have", all it takes is to let go of the gas pedal and drive at a slower speed, but there are many people that don't realised they are pulling something once they climb back on their vehicle, I have seen a guy pulling a small travel triler with an Astro Van on the Eighteen Mile Stretch and almost lost control twice in order to not let me pass him on the passing zone, I finally settle behinde the idiot to preserve his life.

On this accident apparently this was an overloded vehicle and unexperince driver that cause his own death, I'm sorry for his family and my heart goes out to them, but pulling anything behind any vehicle is a serious business, you might not think that way but it is and every body should be aware of that, I have seen way to many accidents like this one that should not had happened.

G8RDave

You realize that is the only road into the Keys, right? If no large trucks or trailers, how are people going to get their groceries and other goods? Plus it would really hurt tourism if people couldn't bring their boats. The bridges are sporty during weather, but not too bad if you go slow and pay attention.

__________________
2004 Grady White 228G - F225

OReely

I'm sorry if I seemed dispassionate about your friend, that was not my intent. Oftentimes someone suffers a personal tragedy and projects it upon others. I think this may be what happened with the OP. The whole tone of his post (and his website) was one of overarching danger from trailers. I haven't researched the numbers to prove it but it just seems so far fetched to believe that the millions of road miles traveled by people with trailers of all sorts every year are a genuine problem. Certainly, there are accidents. And I'm sure some of them could be directly related to unsafe trailers or trailering practices, but the OP makes out like the trailer is the cause of all accidents.

My condolences to you for the loss of your friend.

__________________
http://specialistboatcompany.com/

Sea Hawk

If you ban large trucks you'll put me out of business, and don't ask me to move out, cause I have being living here for more than 30 years, and I don't know how to live in any other place, I can visit crowded places but can't stay for too long, plus I like hurricanes and hate gloval warming, that most of the country has being getting lately, even in north Florida got some, Atlanta had as much as 12 inches in a single day ,so please don't ban large trucks from the Keys.

87hydro

I don't know if boat trailers are evil. I have seen some that were bad tempered.

Bugbuster

I remember that tanker too. I was just on the ocean side of the bridge when it happened. Looked back up at the bridge and just about chit my pants.

Also, you'd actually be amazed at what types of vehicles you see pulling boats in the keys. Guess they figure they don't have that far to pull. I saw an old bonneville leaving sparks as it pulled a big cat through Islamorada.

Sorry about the death of the biologist. Tragic.

__________________
I got a shotgun, a rifle and a four wheel drive

Nicmegmatt

I have a side issue with this story. Why is the headline "a biologist and three other persons"? Is a biologists life more valuable than a plumber or a banker or a hairdresser?

Sorry for the loss and tragedy of everyone in this accident.

nautiduck

Trailers arent the problem. Its people who tow outside their vehicles limits and arent intelligent enough to make sure their running 10% of the load as tongue weight. 10% will eliminate 99.9% of sway caused by anything, wind, speed, and slight balance issues. Basically if you have a 10,000 lb load you should have a 1000lbs of tongue weight. If your vehicle cant handle the proper toungue weight than your truck is too damn small. Search google for the research its out their that anyless than 10% is not safe. Anybody including "those in the industry" like trailer salesman, that tell you different are morons.

eddy2419

Where would we in Alabama live if you did that?

Sincere condolences to family and friends.

BiloxiGuy

Oh my.

__________________

Key Largo 186/Yamaha 90 - My idea of a bass boat...for my attempt at bass fishing
Hydra-Sports 2000CC Vector/Honda BF225 - Sold
Hydra-Sports 2200WA Vector/Yam F115's - Sold
Hydra-Sports 2400CC Vector/150 HPDI's - Sold
31' Fountain CC Open/Opti 250XS's - Sold

KeyPineSavage

The current day's facts about the accident. The FHP tells about the same story as the Peter Bilt guy above. There were two employees of our state Fish and Wildlife Commission, scientists not LEO's, in a FWC truck pulling a FWC boat on a FWC trailer (don't know what make/size of boat.) The male FWC employee, who died, was the passenger. A female FWC employee was driving.

It is entirely unclear just yet what caused the fishtailing to start. Could have been any one of the usual things (flat tire, sidewinds, inattention/inexperience by the driver, etc., etc.) Eyewitnesses told the FHP that the fishtailing rapidly got worse, then the jackknife occurred. After the first impact vehicle struck the jackknifed truck/trailer, an intense fire broke out. It was probably this impact that tore the boat from the trailer, not the initial fishtailing and jackknifing, but I'm not certain of that.

A passenger in that first impact vehicle also died. The driver was injured as was the driver of the second impact vehicle, a local man who after the first impact, ran into the boat which by then was sitting in the road, off the trailer.

__________________

KeyPineSavage

Separate subject....the OP of this thread. He has been all over a couple of threads here in the last week. He is obviously obsessed; IMHO an apparent monomaniac. He even has a cute name picked out for the new "law" he wants every state (or Congress) to pass, a little girl's name, Elmira's Law, I believe. She was apparently a niece of his who was killed years back in some sort of trailer accident.

In a way he is typical of these parents who lose a child and then go on crusades. Generally, we'd be better off without them (the crusades anyway.)

In this case, as my prior post indicates, there is NOTHING so far to indicate any fault, defect, whatever, in the trailer involved. (Is it possible, sure, but he -- OP -- is really jumping the gun.)

slickster

Trailers, boat or otherwise, should have stout safety chains or cables and should be properly installed and used....never seen a production trailer without them....more laws won't make things safer, just more costly...kinda like guns....we have tons of gun laws and safety courses and locking devices...."we got no pills for stupid"

dave11

That combo is probably 10,000 lbs. That is FAR beyond the rating for an Explorer.

Capttater

From his "bio"
"

KeyPineSavage

dave11 (and Scotsman)

I don't know the boat for sure, but I will say I have never seen a 25 Parker or anything resembling it in FWC's ordinary fleet. NOt so say it wasn't, but I have my doubts.

prober

Having owned both and after looking closely at the pictures I can tell you that it is an Expedition, not an Explorer. The first clue is the steel wheels. The base model Expedition came with those and as far as I know the Explorer never did. Second clue is the size of the vehicle, especially the size of the rear side window. Definately an expedition. Should be capable of towing over 9000#. My 4x4 is rated for 9600.

So many things can cause trailer sway that it is impossible to say what caused this. I'm sure if there was an obvious mechanical problem the investigaters will find it but there are some things that they will not be able to know, such as the tounge weight or the air pressure in the tires.

It's a terrible thing but it is still just an accident and nothing to do with a "dangerous trailer".

head_hunter

I was lucky enough to call Jeff a friend, and wish I had the chance to get to know him better and do the dives we had talked about. He was such a great guy who was a great ambassador for the keys and was always willing to help a visitor in need. His 2 year wedding anniversary was in June and you would have been hard pressed to find a couple so perfectly matched as Jeff and his widow, Jess. Sometimes I just can't understand why bad things happen to good people. I posted this tribute on spearboard, from my POV and my best friend's:

It will take a lot of people in the dive community a long time to get past this

Rest in Peace brother, may you swim in clear water with 100lb grouper and cubera, and an infinite supply of freeshafts.

__________________
They shouldn't call it autopilot. Gives stupid people the wrong idea.

head_hunter

Because the biologist died at the scene, the others did not, though it looks like one may have passed later. They are all in my prayers.

__________________
They shouldn't call it autopilot. Gives stupid people the wrong idea.

dusterrm

This is serious business.....and someone in this posting has questioned why even bother..

Runaway Camry crashes raise ‘huge red flag’

Why do we even care about "Runaway Toyota's" almost 40 people have died since 2000 and we have a 8 million recall..yet...

Since 2000 almost 5,000 people have died by "Passenger Cars That Tow Trailers" and we do nothing?

Why address defective cars but yet not "Passenger Cars That Tow Trailers"

Look at what the university of Purdue does before a person can tow!! Does the Florida Wildlife has such a detailed checklist?


This is absolutely the best university that has taken the biggest step.

Look at all the steps...It is the mission of www.dangeroustrailers.org to help and find ways to reduce accidents.

Please note...that I have been self funded...and now I am near the end of my credit. Nobody has helped and I work in retail. I have two children who still believe in what I am trying to do.....but the Industry has sucked everything I have.

My daughter who is 5 has been asking to go to Disney...but we are not going because we have little left. When I meet my maker and he askes me why did I stop???? I can't bear to say it was because of money.

<h1> Guidelines for Towing a Trailer


</h1> See also: Towing Specification/Verification Worksheet (PDF)
I. Because a tow vehicle and a trailer form an articulated (hinged) vehicle, weight considerations are very important to safe towing. The tow vehicle must be a proper match for the trailer. To help Transportation Service assign the proper tow vehicle, the towing specification worksheet must be filled out and submitted a week prior to the trip. The towing worksheet must be approved by the shop manager.

II. The ball and coupler hitch is used on a wide variety of tow vehicle combinations. This hitch consists simply of a ball attached to the rear of a tow vehicle and a coupler (socket) at the tip of a tongue or A-frame attached to the front of the trailer. This hitch is commonly used on recreational trailers.
A load distributing hitch is used for heavier models such as utility trailers, boat trailers, and travel trailers. These load distributing hitches use special equipment to distribute the tongue load to all axles of the tow vehicle and trailer to help stabilize the tow vehicle. Here are some terms you should know when discussing hitch adjustment and in evaluating hitch performance:

• Receiver: Hitch platform fitted to the tow vehicle.
• Ball mount: A removable steel component that fits into the receiver. The ball and spring bars (only on load distributing hitches) are attached to it.
• Sway Control: A device designed to lessen the pivoting motion between tow vehicle and trailer when a ball-type hitch is used.
• Coupler: A ball socket at the front of the trailer A-frame that receives the hitch ball.
• Spring Bars: Load-leveling bars used to distribute hitch weight among all axles of tow vehicle and trailer in a load distributing ball-type hitch.

III. Weight definitions:

• Base Curb Weight - Weight of the vehicle and trailer not including cargo or any optional equipment.
• Cargo Weight - Includes cargo, passengers and optional equipment. When towing, trailer tongue weight is also part of the Cargo Weight.
• Gross Axle Weight (GAW) - The total weight placed on each axle (front and rear). To determine the Gross Axle Weights for your vehicle and trailer combination, take your loaded vehicle and trailer to a scale. With the trailer attached, place the front wheels of the vehicle on the scale to get the front GAW. To get the rear GAW, weigh the towing vehicle with trailer attached, but with just the four wheels of the vehicle on the scale. You get the rear GAW by subtracting the front GAW from that amount. In the absence of a scale, calculate the Front Gross Axle Weight by adding the Front Axle Curb Weight to the Cargo Weight (including passengers) assigned to the front 1/2 of the van. Calculate the Rear Gross Axle Weight by adding the Rear Axle Curb Weight to the Cargo Weight (including passengers) assigned to the rear 1/2 of the van and the Tongue Weight of the trailer.
• Gross Axle Weight Rating (GAWR) - The total weight each axle (front and rear) is capable of carrying. These numbers are shown on the Safety Compliance Certification Label located inside the driver side door frame. The total load on each axle (GAW) must never exceed its GAWR.
• Gross Combination Weight (GCW) - The weight of the loaded vehicle (GVW) plus the weight of the fully loaded trailer. It is the actual weight obtained when the vehicle and trailer are weighed together on a scale.
• Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) - The maximum allowable weight of the towing vehicle and the loaded trailer (including all cargo) that the power train can handle without risking costly damage. The measured GCW must never exceed the GCWR. (Important: The towing vehicle's brake system is rated for safe operation at the GVWR -- not GCWR. Separate functional brake systems should be used for safe control of towed vehicles and for trailer weighing more than 3,000 lbs. when loaded).
• Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) - Base Curb Weight plus actual Cargo Weight. It is the actual weight that is obtained when the fully loaded vehicle is driven onto a scale.
• Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) - The maximum allowable weight of the fully loaded vehicle (Base Curb Weight plus options plus cargo). The vehicle's measured GVW must never exceed the GVWR. The GVWR along with other maximum safe vehicle weights, as well as tire, rim size and inflation pressure are shown on the vehicle's Safety Compliance Certification Label.
• Gross Trailer Weight - Is the highest possible weight of a fully loaded trailer the vehicle can tow. It assumes a towing vehicle with mandatory options, no cargo and the driver only (150 lbs.). The weight of additional optional equipment, cargo and hitch must be deducted from this weight.
• Payload - Maximum allowable weight of cargo that the vehicle is designed to carry. It is Gross Vehicle Weight Rating minus the Base Curb Weight.

IV. Safety:

• Perform a safety inspection before each trip : Make sure that the pin securing the ball mount to the receiver is intact, the hitch coupler is secured, spring bar hinges are tight with the safety clips in place (load equalizer or weight distributing hitches), safety chains are properly attached and the electrical plug is properly installed.
• Practice trailer backing: Backing a trailer into tight places is easier than it looks, but it does take some practice. It's best to practice in a parking lot and in a vehicle that allows you to see the trailer through the rear window. Vans, trucks and campers that have obstructed rear views require more practice and the use of side mirrors. In either case, be patient, and make steering adjustments slowly and a little at a time.
• Watch your tongue weight: How a trailer handles down the road depends upon tongue weight. Too much weight will cause the rear of the trailer to sway and make the tow vehicle difficult to control. The tongue weight should not exceed 200 pounds for trailer up to 2,000 pounds. Tongue weight for trailers over 2,000 pounds should be 10 to 15% of the trailer's loaded weight.
• Take care of tires: It's wise to periodically check tires for wear, cuts or other damage and replace as needed. Above all, maintain the tire pressure recommended by the manufacturer, located on the tire sidewall. Improperly inflated tires will cause them to wear out quicker and reduces fuel mileage.
• Keep bearings greased: Wheel bearings are the heart of trailers. They need to remain airtight and packed with fresh grease. Poorly greased bearings will overheat and deteriorate, creating serious problems if they fail. They should be inspected and repacked at least once a year, depending upon the amount of use. Lay your hand on your wheel hubs after traveling. If they feel unusually warm, you may have a problem. But why wait? Routine maintenance is good prevention.
• Go wide on turns: Be careful making sharp turns or sudden moves when trailering. The trailer tends to cut corners more sharply than the tow vehicle which can be dangerous when cutting corners close to curbs, other vehicles and road-side obstructions. Striking solid objects at an angle can cause tire damage, and more importantly, cause you to lose control momentarily.
• Be a weight watcher: When loading, balance the cargo with 60 percent of the weight near the front.
• Secure the trailer: Keep the safety chains provided on most trailers fastened securely to the tow vehicle in case the hitch fails. Cross the chains under the trailer tongue and allow slack for turning. For additional security, padlock the trailer hitch to the tow vehicle. That will also prevent someone from stealing the trailer while you're away from the vehicle.

* If the Gross Trailer Weight (3) exceeds the manufacturers recommendation
listed in (15) a weight distribution system must be used. In no case can the
Gross Trailer Weight or the Tongue Weight exceed the maximum recommended
by the tow vehicle manufacturer or hitch specifications.

dusterrm

Click here to see what Purdue University does before a person tow's a trailer.
http://dangeroustrailers.org/Purdue_...ty_Towing.html

It is obvious to www.dangeroustrailes.org they understand the issue.

Does the Florida Agency has such a detailed checklist. Why does Purdue require this form to be filled out yet is such a form required by this Florida Agency.

The point is if this combination was overloaded....and the driver had no training or requirements then someone droped the ball.

Where is the safety checklist? Do they require one?

Then see other lives lost in Florida..

http://www.dangeroustrailers.org/Acc...n_Florida.html

Here are some headlines..

Susan Philpott

dusterrm

Find out what type of
Expedition they were using...

It was an EXpedition same as a 1/2 ton truck...

The Parker Boat..

•Length : 25'4"/7.72 m
•Beam : 9'6"
•Draft : 17"
•Dry Weight : 5800 lbs
•Max HP : 500
•Fuel Capacity : 200 gals
•Deadrise : 21 degrees


Then add water weight...and TWO OUTBOARD engines...Any water in the holding tanks...

The trailer how much did it weigh?

Engine: 5.4-liter SOHC 24-valve V8
Horsepower (hp @ rpm): 310 @ 5100
Torque (lb.-ft. @ rpm): 365 @ 3600
Transmission: 6-speed automatic
EPA fuel economy, city/hwy: 14/20 mpg
Wheelbase: 119.0 in.
Length/width/height: 206.5/91.8/77.2 in.
Track, f/r: 67.0/67.2 in.
Turning circle: 40.8 ft.
Seating capacity: 8
Head/hip/leg room, f: 39.6/60.2/41.1 in.
Head/hip/leg room, m: 39.8/59.9/39.1 in.
Head/hip/leg room, r: 38.3/50.2/37.7 in.
Cargo volume: 108.3 cu. ft.
Payload: 1750 Lbs.
Towing capacity: 9200 Lbs.
Suspension, f: independent, double wishbones with coil springs over gas-charged shock absorbers, anti-roll bar
Suspension, r: independent, five-link with coil springs over gas-charged shock absorbers, anti-roll bar
Ground clearance: 8.7 in.
Curb weight: 5578 lbs.
Tires: 275/55R20 all-season
Brakes, f/r: vented disc/vented disc with ABS and brake assist
Fuel capacity: 28.0 gal.